The Manitoban interview

Emöke Szathmáry has been president of U of M since 1996, and her career as an anthropologist has been littered with scholarships, academic honours and administrative postings. In addition to all of the perks of U of M's top job — including a house on King's Drive and a salary UMSU loves to complain about — Szathmáry was honoured with the 2007 Lieutenant Governor's Medal for Excellence in Public Administration in this, her last year at the U of M — her successor was announced just this week. She smiled at the announcement, but what is one of Manitoba's most powerful women going to do once she retires this July?

An interview with EMÖKE SZATHMÁRY

Brendan Cathcart

You’ve been president since 1996 — looking back on your tenure, what were your greatest accomplishments?

This is like a nightly examination of conscience. [Laughs.] I’d say probably one of the biggest accomplishments was getting the capital campaign and raising the money to really start the physical improvements that were necessary to the university. I think that really demonstrated to the university how much support it had, not only within the province of Manitoba, because remember, there are only 1.2 million people in Manitoba. To raise $237 million is phenomenal

So, for me, personally — I try to separate what is important for the institution and how I may feel about it or think about it — but for me there was a personal element in that also — and that is the discovery of the generosity of people. That was an eye opener, it really was.

After that, of course, buildings are no good if they’re empty. That we have been able to recruit so many talented students and I know part of it is the echo baby boom, but nevertheless, students have choices and they chose to come here. And the fact that so many really fine young scholars and scientists have chosen to come here, I think that that’s phenomenal because you’re seeing the revitalization of the university community at every level. So that has happened on my watch and I’m really pleased with that, I really am.

Our research and technology park — our board approved that back in 1982 — but no president was able to it. It finally became a reality after I came on board and I’m very proud of that. I’m very proud of the aboriginal centre that’s coming. I think that’s been long overdue.

Where could you have done better?

I wish that we could have had more money, and it’s always the president’s responsibility to raise more money. But more money that is continuing money, so that it’s in the operating budget so that our profs aren’t so hard-pressed.

So I don’t think that I’ve been able to manage raising enough money, persuading our government that if it has a social policy that freezes tuition, than they have to increase the amount of money that they give to the university, because it’s really the professors that are working full tilt and the staff that supports them.

Where would you like to see the university in the next decade?

I’d like us to be recognized for how good we are. And I don’t have to be nice about it anymore — I really do think that Manitoba is a hidden jewel and we’re underestimated outside the province. I think part of it is the artifice of the Maclean’s rankings.

Doesn’t the quality of education change from university to university?

Not in Canada. It is not the function of the university to turn out graduates who are like penguins; they look the same, they march the same, they squawk the same. It’s the function of a university to turn out well-educated students who know the core of the discipline they’re graduating in, who have learned how to think critically, and who will be independent thinkers. I think that in that sense, any student in Canada can be assured that you’ll get a good quality education at a Canadian university.

It really makes no difference; the issue is: are you going to find in that place the ability to focus on what you want to focus on? And learning is work. And often times for young people — and I was one of them, I went on scholarship but I lost that scholarship. Well, I was lonely, among other things. I’m making excuses.

But you have to focus, and sometimes a young person has to learn the hard way that focus is the name of the game. Get involved. If you’re lonely, don’t sit in your room, go out and find people that are congenial. Don’t be afraid. Be not afraid. You can excel anywhere.

Part of the draw when you were hired was your ability to deal with a strike. How different was your role in the CAW strike and the potential UMFA strike this past October than it was in 1996?

There was a very ugly strike here, a long one. My colleagues at McMaster thought I was crazy to come here, because why would you go to a place where there are such labour problems? And I came because — first of all I knew about the university — I knew about the institiution, and because I’m enamored of the indigineous people of North America and I focused mainly on their genetics. And Manitoba had been the leader in really gathering baseline information on the genetics of Native people of Western Canada. So I had always been aware of the work done here simply because of my research. And I knew many of the people here and I also had my first job offer from the U of M back in 1972. I chose not to come here, my supervisor said no finish your thesis first.

So my own knowledge of this institution from the time I was a young woman, my research interests, which made me have contacts, especially over in medicine, my first job offer from a Canadian was from this one. And coincidentally my husband’s family comes from Manitoba. So, I’ve discovered relatives here and for someone who was a refugee to Canada, to find a place where — for my children, they have relatives, there are people buried here to whom they are related — that was important.

I felt that the people here were solid, and the professors, I thought, were solid. And I wanted to come here to help, if it was possible, reorient them on the academic purpose that they have. They’re passionate defenders of academic freedoms here, as am I. Contrary to what some may assume, in fact academic freedom matters.

And I felt that the people here just needed to feel that they could in fact focus their attention again on their teaching and their research and I could help them do that. That’s the reason why I came. And it was a matter of figuring out how you do it.

I think that it is a joint administration-faculty responsibility to prevent a work stoppage. Why is the just the administration’s fault? I think it’s a joint responsibility. I know that there are people here who do not agree with me, but that is the attitude at McMaster, where I spent 16 years of my life.

There, the faculty and the administration really work hand in hand. They have a protocol on bargaining on how it’s going to be done. They talk money, they also talk language. They have managed to not ever have a work stoppage.

I can’t help it. I happen to have seen a system that works and I think that that system did work here the last round. So I have great faith that this university is on the right track. It’s on the right track because the people here believe in the academy. They want to do well.

Yes, they can be prickly, but so can governments, so can administration. The reason for the prickliness is because we’re passionate about what we do. Teaching matters and doing research matters and doing it well matters even more.

The Manitoban conducts a Talkback every week. This week we asked 10 students “Who is Emöke Szathmáry” and no one responded correctly.

They wouldn’t know, they wouldn’t know. The average undergraduate student doesn’t know who the president is, and why should they care?

Shouldn’t they?

Yes and no. I think back to my own days as undergraduate and did I know the president?

Should the student leaders now? Yes, they should. I have worked very hard to build good relations with the leadership of UMSU. The difficulties really arose after they joined CFS (Canadian Federation of Students), where CFS targets the presidents of institutions as the enemy. It doesn’t compute — how can the president be against faculty and be against students? You don’t have a university without faculty you don’t have a university without students.

So it’s not surprising. Most students don’t even know who their dean is. That’s just the way that it is. There are opportunities to find out, though. And I think our students would probably know more if they weren’t so hell-bent to get off campus when classes end.

Well, it’s the nature of the school, isn’t it?

Well, it has always been a commuter campus. On the other hand, when people were coming here by commuting in cars, they would then stay on campus until the driver left. So, you’d get involved, you’d start to engage your profs more, you’d get to know a little bit more about the university.

This is going to sound ridiculous, but . . . I was thinking about Harry Potter and I wondered if you have the same role as Dumbledore.

[Laughs.] No! I’m like what no one wants to hear about, the principal of the high school. [Laughs.] I’m officially defined as the CEO.

Then is there an explicit need for the president to build bonds with students?

Well, actually there is. For example, this year I haven’t been able to do it all, I broke my hip almost six months ago, so that really restricted how much time I would have available. Last year I had lunches, and I would invite students, usually student leaders who were involved with faculty student council because I felt that I needed to hear what the students in other faculties were thinking. I thought it was exciting I thought it was really wonderful to actually have a lunch with 11, 12 students from different faculties and have their sense of what was going on and what was important to them.

With more women than men entering university these days, do you see yourself as a role model for young women?

I’ve always been skeptical of the role model issue. How did academic women like me come about when officially we had no role models? [Laughs.]

This is what I say about being a self-directed learner. I think knowledge doesn’t come packaged in male of female form. Knowledge is knowledge, wisdom is wisdom. It may be my native language, which does not have gender. To me it makes no difference. It’s true, though, I think there may be differences in the style of leadership, based on whether you’re male or female. And I do think that sometimes that has caused difficulties because some people’s expectations may be that because I’m female I’m necessarily more nurturing than male would be and that isn’t necessarily true.

You’ve accomplished so much, you’re acvtive on numerous boards, and you’ve received so many awards. What is the driving force behind the work you do?

I have one life to live, just like you do, and I’d like to do the best that I can, and that’s really it.

You recently went on a trip to China on non-university related business. What was the highlight of your trip?

To me the highlight was meeting some of the past political leaders of China. To have the privilege of having a private audience with them when they give you an hour of their time and say, “Well, do you have questions?” And I always ask questions, and they answered me. They took the time and the trouble to answer — that’s phenomenal.

It has made me go and search out books that are written about some of these individuals and what is going on in China. It’s true, I’m an anthropologist and my area is genetics but I deal with living people. So some of this is really fascinating, how they are conceptualizing socialism with Chinese characteristics where it’s possible to be true to their particular social philosophy along with modernization and financial advancement.

What are your plans? Where do you go from here?

Well, I’m an academic woman; you don’t take that part out of the president. I have to handle certain domestic matters, my husband is retired, we’re building a house here. Just like any professor who earns time for a sabbatical, a university president does the same thing. The university owes me administrative time.

I want to retool, literally. I think I’m good for at least one scientific book because I’ve kept my hand in my discipline. I’d like to write one scientific book but I need to get retooled in some of the areas. Molecular biology has completely revolutionized what goes on in the laboratories.

Any more administration work?

Well, certainly not in the near future. I’m not old enough to retire, but after my administrative leave I’ll think about it. I might want to come back and maybe try my hand in the classroom again, but I’m not so certain anymore. There’s a big gulf in age.

So you’re going back to school?

I plan to sit in. I want to learn some techniques now in modern computational biology, too, so I can really exercise judgment on what is in the literature but maybe do some calculations of my own. So, I want to write at least one scientific book and then after that I want to write about other observations that I made. It’s a fairly long life, I began in a refugee camp, so I have lots of observations on how things go in life. I’m not sure anybody might want to read those things. [Laughs.] I’d like to write but I think first I just want to sleep. [Laughs.]